“Get out of the mindset that because I have a stutter, there are certain things that I cannot do well or that I will find harder than any fluent speaker. It’s a way of thinking in the moment, it’s a way of keeping it real”

— Robert O'Brien

Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.

BIO:

Robert O’Brien started stuttering at 8 and struggled with his speech into his adult years, discovering speech therapy, Toastmasters, and eventually acting school in Vancouver BC. At the same time, he was dealing with being gay and hiding his sexuality until finally coming out at 32. His focus throughout was to “fix” himself. After a failed suicide attempt, he was inspired to write a memoir called Just One More Drive: The true story of a stuttering homosexual and his race car to help others deal with issues around mental health and acceptance. His book is on sale globally and he has given various workshops sharing his experiences. He currently resides in Vancouver, BC working as a teacher and co-instructor for “The Unblockables”, an improv acting course for people who stutter with Tightrope Theatre. Other written works include The MINI: A Strategic Relaunch of a Dormant Brand (Lambert Academic Publishing, 2016).

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

 0:00- 07:28  Intro

 07:28 -10:40 “Fear, Exhaustion, Lost.” 

10:40 - 18:09 Writing O’Briens’  memoir

18:09 - 21:34 Feedback on the memoir

21:34 - 27:44 O’Brien’s coming out journey

27:44 - 29:01 Dealing with stuttering today

29:01- 37:27 Dealing with Mental health (men)

37:27 - 40:04 Mental Health self-care routine

40:04 - 47:54 ‘The unblockables’ Improv course for people who stutter.

47:54- 49:36 TS Toolbox (resources on stuttering)

49:36- 51:06 Robert’s message for the world

51:06 - 52:10 Outro

RESOURCE LIST

• One More Drive

• The unblockable improv course

• The Mini: A strategic relaunch of a dormant brand

• Book Reviews:

  • Brett Grubisic (The British Columbia Review) :

  • Paul Blezard ( Lovereading.co.uk)

• Tightrope Theatre - The Unblockables (Improv for people who stutter)

  
  
  
  
  MORE QUOTES

“Everyone has their crosses. That's the other thing that we aren't really talking about now. It's become much more about, well I'm X and you are Y as opposed to “no, we are this, and you have this aspect. I have this aspect, but we are more alike.” - Robert O’Brien

“Get out of the mindset that because I have a stutter, there are certain things that I cannot do well or that I will find harder than any fluent speaker. It's a way of thinking in the moment, it's a way of keeping it real.”  - Robert O’Brien

TRANSCRIPTION:

Uri Schneider: What a special morning. Um, I've already warmed up and it's only 10 in the morning in New York. And it's a big treat to have this conversation with Robert O'Brien. My name is Uri Schneider. I'm the host of Transcending Stuttering and lead at SchneiderSpeech and today's conversation.

Uri Schneider: We're recording live. On Facebook and it will be another episode on the podcast. Transcending Stuttering. I'm excited because we're going to talk about topics that are important, that are uncomfortable for some, but that's exactly why they're important to bring into light. And, uh, there's no one I could think of better this morning than Robert O'Brien.

Uri Schneider: And we're going to talk about things related to mental wellness related to homosexuality related to the performing arts. And how it all relates to an incredible journey that, uh, one could never predict at one point how it gets to where it gets to. And, uh, Robert we'll be sharing some things that I think are really important to lean in and take advantage of and to listen to.

Uri Schneider: And I promise that at the end of this conversation, you will be awake. You will feel charged for the day and you will see some things in a new light. So that's a big promise. And I'm confident it will deliver so good morning to everybody. And, uh, thank you for joining me, Robert.

Robert O'Brien: Thank you for having me uri.

Robert O'Brien: It's a pleasure.

Uri Schneider: Awesome. Awesome. So I'll start with the formal intro and then we'll get right into it. Um, it's it's impressive. Robert O'Brien started stuttering at the age of eight, struggled with his speech into his adult years. Discovering speech therapy toastmasters and eventually acting school in Vancouver, British Columbia.

Uri Schneider: At the same time, he was dealing with being gay and hiding his sexuality until finally coming out at the age of 32, his focus throughout was to fix himself after a failed suicide attempt. He was inspired to write a memoir called just one more drive the true story of a stuttering homosexual and his race car to help others dealing with issues around mental health and acceptance

Uri Schneider: his book is on sale globally, and he's given various workshops sharing his experiences currently resides in Vancouver, British Columbia, working as a teacher and co-instructor for fi unblock bubbles improv acting course for people who stutter with the tight rope theater. Other written works include the mini, a strategic relaunch of a dormant brand.

Uri Schneider: Good morning, Robert. And it's early in Vancouver. Thanks

Robert O'Brien: Good morning, uri , yeah, it is early. It's, uh, it's really awesome. Uh, I'm not a morning person normally. So this has been a wonderful exercise in getting to bed early. I made a point last night after the gym to go to bed by 10 30 and on this, I did work.

Robert O'Brien: I was very proud of myself. So I am thrilled to be here on to, as you said, have this chat dealing with various issues,

Uri Schneider: side comment and parentheses. If you're interested in figuring out how to hack the early morning, wake up, it starts with what time you go to bed, much easier to wake up in the morning when you've had a good night's sleep and gone to bed a little earlier than going to at the same time and thinking you're going to wake up much earlier, not a good plan.

Uri Schneider: Um, I got to ask you, what's one thing that you'd like people to know that's not in the bio, it's a pretty comprehensive bio, but what's something that isn't there that you feel is something you're proud of. Something you're excited by and would love to share.

Robert O'Brien: Wow. Um, there's a lot I could say, but really the proudest thing, given what I'm doing right now and given what about the whole book is about.

Robert O'Brien: Being fixed and overcoming things I thought I needed to fix. I'm really proud that I've actually ended up at this point to be able to talk and share. There's a part of, of me on bad days. That would think all of the choices I've made have not been the best. And on mornings like this, where I have the opportunity to actually talk and share and be open and be of service to other people.

Robert O'Brien: It's it's really, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's an amazing feeling and it's not about me. It's about being of service and I've heard that a lot over the years on, I thought it was just, oh yeah, that's very easy for some rich famous person, you know, to be of service, you know, and very, very much being honest, but, uh, Um, I'm beginning to really see and feel being of service to other people.

Robert O'Brien: So I'm very, very proud of, of myself and of the journey to be here and to be of service. If, if, if all of that makes sense, that

Uri Schneider: resonates with when we met just a few weeks ago, courtesy of the world's stuttering network. Um, and I think we talked about that very point, the idea of. What we do, is it serving ourselves and where that takes us and the pressures we feel and the drive that drives us one more drive, um, versus waking up to be of service to others and feel ourselves being a vehicle of bringing light and, and passing on something that others can benefit from what we've gone through.

Uri Schneider: So thank you. Um, certainly that's what got me out of bed. If it was up to me, I would have rolled over. Um,

Robert O'Brien: so would I

Uri Schneider: there's one, there's one elephant in the room for all the topics that you've uncovered and been transparent about. You don't sound like you're from Vancouver. Like that's not a Vancouver accent.

Robert O'Brien: I know, I know I've got many dialect coaches who would be in tears right now.

Robert O'Brien: Um, yeah, so, uh, obviously, um, Dublin is, is my home. So I, um, I am Irish and I've been living in Vancouver. Now. This is year 11 uh, so as you said in the introduction, I came over here to, uh, to actually go to acting school. I was, I, I, I'm a huge science fiction fan. And at the time they, they were shooting a lot of scifi shows here.

Robert O'Brien: And, um, I have, you know, I had a. Amazing dream of getting to work on start star gate S S G one and you know, touch the gate. And, uh, that's why I came over here. But, uh, yes, I still sound vaguely Irish. Um, it's I mean,

Uri Schneider: yeah, absolutely. And isn't that funny? Right? The, a self perception. I don't know what you make of it. And what kind of conscientiousness do you have? But they say, you know, people hear British people speak and they immediately think they have a higher IQ. Um, I don't know what they think when they hear my accent, but I think your accent is, is awesome.

Uri Schneider: And, uh, I don't think I could pull it off unless I pulled a Daniel Day Lewis method acting move.

Robert O'Brien: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that'd be probably a challenging for many of us Daniel Day Lewis says, yeah, that's. high bar we'll take

Uri Schneider: it so we can start in so many places, but I just had this conversation with another guest and I thought I would go here.

Uri Schneider: And I think you're game for it, especially improv. This is like perfect. I meet young people who stutter often. I mean, parents of young kids, I meet teens, I meet adults. And I often like to ask the following question, I'm going to say a word and you just tell me the first word that comes to mind. So ice cream.

Robert O'Brien: Beach sand.

Uri Schneider: Awesome. So nothing, nothing judgmental there, right? It was just descriptions. They either nouns or adjectives that are descriptive. So let's try the same thing. What are like three words today that you think of? When I say the word stuttering,

Robert O'Brien: fear, exhaustion lost as in feeling lost.

Uri Schneider: And, uh, those are the present day present day associations that came to mind, or those are from younger years

Robert O'Brien: as I'm sitting here right at the moment.

Robert O'Brien: Those are the words that come to mind. And it's certainly not as, not as charged, not as out of control and not, not on the surface as much as it would have been in the past as a child, even talking to you now, or even as a teenager, I think. Sweating buckets. So it's not on the surface, but it is still there.

Robert O'Brien: Or that's at least what i feel still rightly or wrongly.

Uri Schneider: So junior high school, if, if you could transport yourself and this'll segue into the memoir, maybe junior high school, what might've been as you think back or transport yourself there science-fiction style.

Robert O'Brien: Uh, yeah. Um, Trying to get by trying to get, get through every day, get through every hour.

Robert O'Brien: Um, I, I was, I, I was, um, bullied to a certain extent in schools, so it was always every day. Am I safe? Am I going to be bullied today? Will the teacher asked me to read out today? Have I put on the right clothes today? I don't look too gay. And so there, I mean, there wouldn't have been as much. As much fear, there was, there was much more effort in trying to get by looking at everyone else.

Robert O'Brien: What is everyone else doing? Copy them, keep your head down. And don't for the love of God get noticed.

Uri Schneider: And this was in Dublin

Robert O'Brien: . Yep. Yeah,

Uri Schneider: but kids in Vancouver, New York, Israel, Italy, Japan, Africa, it's a universal experience. And I think bringing light to it and also reflecting and transporting ourselves to the earlier version of Robert that today's version of Robert, I think is also a celebration for you celebration for us and the celebration for anybody who's in a, in a certain place.

Uri Schneider: And they can't figure out how it's ever going to change. And just to kind of plant that seed of hope. So maybe you could share with us like the journey you've been on several, uh, and the tracks crisscross and. Yeah, come together. But the memoir, what, what, what was the tipping point that kind of told you to put this down on paper and share it with the world?

Robert O'Brien: Uh, yeah, that's one of the first things people ask me. Why or how did I start writing a book? So as you mentioned, going in, um, I, I spent a lot of my younger years trying, trying to be fixed, trying to fix having a stutter, trying to fix being gay, working very, very hard. Uh, so when I, when I first went onto speech therapy, it was really amazing.

Robert O'Brien: I learned tools and techniques, and that led me on to Toastmasters. And I discovered I really liked speaking in front of a crowd, which is crazy, given everything. Uh, that then led to acting school. And there, there was a sort of element of trying to hide. I was still in the closet on acting, putting on other roles, trying to be someone else or learning to feel, to be someone else.

Robert O'Brien: So how does it feel to be a science fiction hero? Who's, you know, flying on a space ship rather than being little gay stuttering rob. So there was a sort of element there of running from who I actually was, but also having fun. And I could never, and I still haven't figured that out fully. I still can say where I land on that because it changes from day to day.

Robert O'Brien: Uh, but I tried to fix myself. I tried to be someone else. Uh, at the age of 35, I was at home, there was a family wedding. I was, um, single broke, uh, lost. And, um, and I, uh, , there was a suicide attempt in my father's race car, which is, which is an E30 sports evolution. And my father had owned this car for many years.

Robert O'Brien: And he had made the promise that he would keep the car. Um, for, for, for when I became a, a man, when I was man enough to own the car and take the car. Now that meant having money that meant having a job path, it meant being able to do all of that and that 35 after working hard, going on speech therapy, doing the Toastmasters, you know, taking a risk, jumping on a plane, flying over to Vancouver, following my dream.

Robert O'Brien: I was left in the car and it was, it was a low point. Um, was I seriously looking at trying to kill, kill myself if I was really serious about it, I could have made a better effort off it because as, as, as you will read in the book, I, you know, obviously I'm still here and I can always actually remember sitting in the car crying, thinking, oh my God, I can't even kill it.

Robert O'Brien: Kill myself effectively . And that's actually where the book began because I, I was sitting there in, in the car in an, in an empty hanger, fumes, still wafting around. And I was literally thinking, oh my God, where do I go from here? I literally. I have no idea how to pick up any of these pieces. So I obviously went and got professional help, which I think is the first thing to actually say not to make light of even a failed suicide attempt is a suicide attempt and there's some kind of cry for help.

Robert O'Brien: So I did have the good sense to go and get help, but I also began writing. I began thinking, okay, if I can begin writing, go back to the very beginning. And write and figure out where everything has gone wrong and tried to fix it. And that's actually where, where the book actually began. I, I didn't ever see myself as, as, as an author, as a writer.

Robert O'Brien: Um, and as I began to work on it and build on it and, uh, over three, three or four, four years, that personal journals became a rough book draft. And that's how it began.

Uri Schneider: Wow. Were there, was it like a one and done, it's hard to picture the, the, the, the movement from the episode in the car to holding your book in your hands, was that, uh, you know, what, what was that decision like? And was it just a commitment and it was a straight line from there, or it was like,

Robert O'Brien: Anyone who's who's ever tried to write a book, probably knows. It's it's a very, it's, it's a very hard thing to finish. Starting a book is very easy. You're all riled riled up and you have goals to write, you know, a thousand words every day, and then you certainly hit points where you get stuck. So it was, it was certainly up and down, up and down.

Robert O'Brien: Um, I can say how many versions of the book. Went back and forth, back and forth, um, you know, and taking it back towards, towards the very end of, of the, of the process tide water press are the, um, are, are the people who picked up the book and I I'd been working with someone on, on their staff for, uh, for about two or three.

Robert O'Brien: Three years working on the book back and forth, but it, it was really towards the very end where I thought I had everything finished and I then had to take it back again. And it was just the point of like, I'm, I'm just like, what else can I say, what else do I need to put into this that hasn't been said?

Robert O'Brien: So it really, really was a case of having. One of, one of the things I've learned about myself or for better or worse, I find quitting very, very hard. And given the book, given what it's about on a very personal note, it's, it's essentially me, everything that I am, everything that I was, everything that I thought was in the book.

Robert O'Brien: It's a very deep book i've shared. So it's very open. And so it meant that much that when I, when I actually was finishing us and I really did want one to just hand it in and go, it's good. It's good enough. I just had to sit, sit myself down and take a couple of breaths and look, yeah. And go, is there anything else?

Robert O'Brien: Is there anything that I've learned at this point, at the end of, of, of the journey that adds to us and it actually did adding, adding the ending was the hardest part. And so taking the book back and having to end it, because how, how does someone end a book like this? And so that was like, okay, And now I can say, you know, now it's finished.

Robert O'Brien: It's, you know, ended as at the points that I, as the actual, I mean, author and the person on the journey, I'm very happy to, you know, sort of end that at the point that it did. And, and it felt amazing, but it was years. It was years, six or seven years, I think like, I, well, no, sorry, not six, six or seven. I'd say probably five.

Robert O'Brien: 'cause I, I was 35 when I tried to commit suicide. And then the book launched about five years later. Yeah. So yeah, it was about that timeframe. Wow.

Uri Schneider: Hmm. You see poured, you poured so much of yourself and your story and openness into the book. What's been. What's been the chapter or the episode in the book that has gotten the most feedback.

Uri Schneider: Sometimes there's a disconnect or a surprise between what the artist intends or finds most meaningful and most valuable as compared to what the world sees in this piece. So, what have you heard from people as resonating with them?

Robert O'Brien: It really varies. It really varies like people. I mean, like it's like there's, so there's so many points I could point to, um, you know, growing up, talking about being, being gay in school and having a stutter 25, 30 years ago is a little bit like a blast from the past.

Robert O'Brien: So I think older people. Who read, read the book really gets and sense that because we, you know, didn't have any phones or any social media or any, you know, sorts of social groups and getting help back then would have been a lot harder. You would have gone through official channels. Um, people who are car fans love the fact that I, you know, am a, I mean, geek, I'm a huge, massive geek cars, science fiction.

Robert O'Brien: I will spaz out. I mean, I'll, you know, sort of stop and look at a, I mean, a car and I'll stop and just stare and people go, what am I, what am I staring at? So any car fans love the fact that, um, given, given my father's race, race car, the M three is such a part of the book. And there is a like sorta real bond there with us and people laugh and go, well, it's only owned via car and car people get fast.

Robert O'Brien: Um, younger, younger, I think I'm at people like when I talk, talk about the whole coming out process and coming out at 32. So I myself had to go, go through all of these crazy learning phases as a grown-ass man. And there's one part in the book where I'm sort of dating my very first boy boyfriend, and there's a whole bed sheet story on my poor mother had to take, take, take, take me hand in hand and be given the whole talk.

Robert O'Brien: And I was a grown man and it's like, mom, I don't, I don't have to have the talk. And she sat there and goes, you're having the tall as a grown man. So , I mean, sort of sorta two shines, shines a light on us. You know, doing it later and not being able to skip any of those steps, which is funny as a sort of adult, you would think, oh, well, I can kind of skip all of, all of these, you know, sort of silly phases and.

Robert O'Brien: No, I had to go, go through all of them and, um, and, uh, and it's really great because it just means I can put it in the book and it can help someone who's maybe been in the same situation. It's humbling to say the least to

Uri Schneider: be of service. Um, so courageous, I mean, just to say the obvious we all have, we all have things.

Uri Schneider: We all have mountains. We climb. But very few of us have the courage to share the unfinished stories and imperfect journeys. And, uh, I think it's a real masterclass and courage and service to, to share the way you have. Thank you. Um, can you share a little bit about the similarities and maybe nuances of difference in the coming out experience?

Uri Schneider: Um, As compared to coming out with your sexuality and coming up with your stutter, uh, obviously it's, the language can be very similar. There are a lot of similarities and then there are of course, uh, nuances of difference. And I think it's, it's beneficial to shed

Uri Schneider: light on both sides yeah.

Uri Schneider: Yeah, no, that's, that's a great thing to ask. And it's one

Robert O'Brien: of, one of the things I've been talking about too, because people think it's not the same thing because they are too on the surface, separate things. I think the kind of first thing to say, um, having, having a stutter, even for myself now, people might be listening to me and say, I don't hear him stuttering

Robert O'Brien: I'm a covert stutterer so I can hide it pretty effectively. And that was a good thing and a bad thing because it meant I could get by most times, but if I was stressed or asked me to use the telephone, I will stutter and block. And I'm learning tools and everything to deal with having a stutter as a co covert stutterer, I still feel the urge to hide it, which, you know, at this point, isn't as helpful as it could be.

Robert O'Brien: There's a line of thought where you should show your stutter and, not be triggered by. So the first thing I'd say about having a stutter is it's very hard to hide being gay on the whole sexuality. It was easier to hide it or to at least try and hide us. I, as I said earlier, like in, in the, in the school setting and even growing, growing up in university as

Robert O'Brien: young adult I put a lot of effort into hiding us. So, you know, I would never look at guys. I would be very careful about how I sat, what I said, what sorts of clothes I would put on. And it was the thing that I could hide, or I tried to hide and I've got friends who said, no, it was very obvious.

Robert O'Brien: And even when I did the coming out, everybody had guessed and I was quite upset by it because I'd said if I put so much effort into hiding it, everybody knew. Um, so that's, that's, that's the first thing I'd say having a stutter is harder to hide. Being gay was easier to hide on the surface. Where they are very similar is in the mindset is in that whole thing of fear hiding and getting by.

Robert O'Brien: So if, if it's a speaking situation, it's a case of just say anything. As long as I don't stutter, when it comes to being gay, it's do anything that is not looking gay. So there's a lot of fear. There's a lot of hiding. There's, there's, there's a huge amount of mental thought and pressure. Um, the coming, coming, coming out.

Robert O'Brien: Felt very SIM similar to each, to each other on a personal level for myself on some level being gay felt more. I mean, I, you know, I'm sort of hesitant to say natural, but it felt more sorts of natural as at my core. This was who I obviously was. And there w there wasn't anything I was going to, to do to change it.

Robert O'Brien: But the process of coming out felt very much the same thing. So as someone who has a stoner, we, I was taught to make disclosures where you disclose to someone, my name is Robert im. Working on my stutter. Uh, thank you for listening to me kind of thing. It's a very simple exercise, but the amount of courage it takes to open up to someone and say, I have a stutter and I'm working on my speech is huge because I had learned to hide us for so many years.

Robert O'Brien: It was the last thing I would say. And 99% of the time people are very. Very happy, very accepting of that coming out as gay felt the very same. So, uh, when I came, came, came out to my mom and dad. First, I was flying home from, uh, from, uh, from acting school in Vancouver and I'd made the, made the choice. I had come, come out in acting school.

Robert O'Brien: So a little bit of. Cliche, if nothing else. Um, you know, and I was flying home and I'd made a promise that I'd, I would tell, tell the people closest to me face to face, and it felt a very same, you, you know, kind of builds it up and you hope and pray. Everything will be fine. You, you know, I kind of try to think what will happen if it's not fine, you know?

Robert O'Brien: And then you take a deep breath, mom, dad I'm, you know, gay. my dad. I mean, cried, you know, ask me why I had suffered for so, so, so many years mom had crossed her arms and gone. Yeah. You know, while you'd, you know, didn't ever bring any girls home, Robert, so it was obvious and I'm like, thank you. But it felt the same.

Robert O'Brien: And it feels the same. And I think that's one of, one of the things people. Walk over a little bit every time, even now, when I tell someone that I have a stutter or I tell someone that I'm gay. Yes I've, I've, I've, i have a book. Yes. It's all over my social media. People who would, who would know me, probably know that, but every time I do it, I still feel that I still feel that little, take a pause, take a breath.

Robert O'Brien: Let's take stock. Every thing will be fine. And did, I mean, yes, it gets easier, but it's, but it's, but it's, but it's still there. It's still there. There's still, I mean, echoes ripples, and I don't think that'll ever change. And I don't think I wanted it to, because if it, if it did become very easy, I could very easily become, oh, oh, oh yeah.

Robert O'Brien: You know, shrug I'm gay. I have a stutter And it then kind of becomes, okay. Is he making fun of it or, you know, does he actually mean it? So the fact that there are still echoes, I think is just a part of who I, who I was, who I am and who i will be

Uri Schneider: that piqued my interest. What are the echoes? What are the voices of the echoes?

Robert O'Brien: Just to

Robert O'Brien: kind of echo of, okay. Yeah. I've kind of felt, felt, felt this in, in the past. So, you know, it's sort of slight sort of nervousness slight kind of tingle of, oh, okay. Someone doesn't actually know. I, you know, here's an opportunity to open up. And there's, and there's still a kind of, you know, sort of, I mean, I'm just going to say you take tingle, even though that might sound a bit odd, but that's how it actually occurs to me.

Robert O'Brien: And it's like, oh, how, how, how is this person going to deal with it? Are they going to be okay? Will I have to explain a little bit more? Um, um, there is, um, there is also a slight, I suppose, a tinge of fear having to just take a pause, take a breath and go, okay. Okay, this, this is fine. I've been being here before.

Robert O'Brien: This is a great opportunity to just stay, present

Uri Schneider: such power in making choices, and then choosing again and again.

Robert O'Brien: And to be, to be fair, anyone listening this, this, this is a good day. There, there are days where I, you know, I just cooked my head and go, oh my God. So I have to do it again. I

Uri Schneider: have to tell this whole let's go, let's go there. Robert. Let's lean right into that.

Uri Schneider: And I'm right. I'm right with you. Yesterday was an extraordinarily. Exhausting. Low-energy kind of leaky kind of day for me. Um, one of the things we'll come back to a question. I had a market, but specifically mental health, specifically men's mental health. And like what you've put in place discovered self-care what do you do to kind of either bounce back, stay strong, or just make sure you do good for you.

Uri Schneider: Following what you've been through, which is really, you know, getting to some really low dark places.

Robert O'Brien: Yeah. Well, men, men, I think have a, have a harder time of it. Men are sort of told to man to man up and to be strong, you know, and if I've done it once I've done it 20 times, this should be a piece of cake.

Robert O'Brien: And as a man, I think people think, well, men should be able to, and I think men get a rough time. Mental health and how to deal with all of this has come from the book. It's come from the years of having to write the book and even finishing the book I've learned to, to soften things and to really have to soften.

Robert O'Brien: I mean, I, in the past, if I had a bad speech day, I'd go off the rails. You know, how am I still during I've put in the work. I've got my tools. This isn't fair. Why am I still stuttering? Why haven't I worked on stargate? You know for God. And I mean, there was huge anger, anger, rage, actually, it wasn't angry. It was just rage.

Robert O'Brien: And it wasn't. I was at other people, it was in it, me, I'd worked this hard. I had to work hard to really get on and work harder. And I was, I was. Brutal to, to myself, even the SU suicide attempt laughing. Ha I, you know, still, you know, I wasn't able to kill, kill myself effectively i am a pathetic excuse of, of a man.

Robert O'Brien: I said that to myself and it's like, oh my God. And one of, one of the things and I mean this, you know, this, this is just, I mean, life man boys don't think are really ever thought how to be their own best friend. And that's the biggest thing I've taken from this whole journey, because even now it's, I mean, hard I've had hard days.

Robert O'Brien: So now to answer what you've asked me, if it's a really bad like day and there's anger. there , hitting, hitting the gym is the first thing I do. Physical exercise, running it off, lifting heavy weights, just getting out in the gym, getting out of, out of my head. Um, if I'm say working and I'm having a bad speech day or, um, I mean teaching and my speech is not the best and I'm finding it tired.

Robert O'Brien: I will, you know, after the break go make a cup of tea, sit down and ask myself, is there anything I can do? How can I help me in the next hour? How can I get me through the next few hours and what are the things I can do? And it's really that mindfulness of just taking a pause, asking what can I do for me?

Robert O'Brien: I can buy like a muffin if I've had a bad speech day, I can buy a nicemuffin and have a cup of tea and just say there thank you for being on my own side. And then I would go and hit the gym cause I have to look ripped as well, you know? So then like it's like, okay, great.

Robert O'Brien: So we've had the muffin taken care of ourselves exercised. Yay.

Uri Schneider: Sounds like a spin cycle.

Robert O'Brien: It is. It is, but it's but it's again, it's, it's, it's really been the biggest shift because I. And I mean, this is a fairly new thing, you know, what, what can I do to take care of myself? And it's a much softer way of being, and it's not a, you know, as a man, it isn't nece necessarily a man's way of being it's, you know softer And being, being sort of able to actually have, but I mean, both I find help.

Robert O'Brien: So if it's in, in the gym and it's heavy weights, it's a physical grunting, you know, feeling it and then the much softer. Thank you. Thank you for, for, you know, sort of taking care of, I mean, us, me, thank you for asking me. Is there anything I can do to help me and it's not being narcissistic people go, oh, well, he is.

Robert O'Brien: I mean, that being a, being a total narcissist and I'm just like, my God, it's the exact opposite of being a narcissist. If I was a narcissist, I take time, you know, I'm hot stuff. I'd think my speech is everyone else's fault. I'd think that all of these hot men don't fancy me and it's their loss. I'm like, it's not narcissism.

Robert O'Brien: And that's one of the things people ask me and I get a little bit triggered by it because it's a case of no, it's the exact opposite. And for boys and for men who don't know how to talk about it, who don't know how to reach out about it and they hit drugs and they hit drink and they do stupid things because they've been taught as a man, they aren't meant to, or they aren't even allowed to feel.

Robert O'Brien: this You know, it's just, I mean, you know, going back to the whole suit, suit, suicide side of it, there, there, you know, having echoes, I can feel it still, when I have bad days, I can feel that kind of thought. I wish I'd left the engine running. And it's like, wow. Okay. That's kind of a little bit scary, but I do understand that because if I wasn't here, I wouldn't have to deal with it.

Robert O'Brien: I wouldn't have to feel the pain. I wouldn't have to delearn what it actually is to be a strong man. And, um, and I, and I've seen, and I've spoken to other guys and they're shocked and like, really, it isn't just me. It's like, no, it really isn't. And again, you, I think said that you're shining a light on.

Robert O'Brien: It's such a vital thing because people, I mean, I've learned, even though I may have a stutter and even though I might be gay, I've got a lot more in common with, you know, other humans than I than, than I, than I ever thought we all feel nervousness. We all get nervous when we're sharing personal things.

Robert O'Brien: So whether it's you're gay or you have a. stutter or, you know, you, you, you have some other issue. Everyone has their crosses and, um, that's, that's the other thing that we aren't really sure you thought that we aren't really talking about now. It's, it's become much, much more about, well I'm X and you are Y as opposed to no, we are this, and you have this aspect.

Robert O'Brien: I have this aspect, but we are more, more alike. And I think that's really, really missing on in the men's health side of things. Certainly like, you know, having men coming together in groups of men and doing men things. If that's in the gym sports, fixing a car, You know, having a couple of beers, that's , you know, what men do, and then letting them talk, they, you know, aren't going to necessarily sit in a circle and shared their inner feelings because they haven't been taught how to, or if they're even allowed to.

Robert O'Brien: And even if they could, would they, whereas if you're fixing a V the V8 engine, stripping it down, someone might say, oh yeah. So, Hey, listen, I've been feeling this because that's how men work. I mean work men are men. Um, you know, again, biased as a gay man on a certain level. They are very simple, you know, food exercise.

Robert O'Brien: That's just keep it simple and let's open it up and, you know, it's, um, it's just nice to kind of see, you know, sorry, I went on a bit of a rant there, but anyway. Oh,

Uri Schneider: I was, I was, I was taking it all in and I was thinking how to say what I want to say. I'll just say the short version. I'm so glad you're here.

Robert O'Brien: Thank you. I just get to talk. I love it.

Robert O'Brien: Not just, not just here right now. I'm so glad you're here.

Robert O'Brien: Yeah, the

Uri Schneider: passion, passion and the advocacy and the openness. It's a treasure. It's like a diamond, so glad you're here. Um, and when I said earlier about the spin cycle, I guess I was, I was just reflecting and for myself as well, but I was, I was, first of all, what's your go-to muffin just to lighten the conversation here.

Uri Schneider: What's the go-to muffin. If you had a choice, corn carrot brand, where you got chocolate, triple chocolate. Okay.

Robert O'Brien: Believe it or not, I think yeah.

Uri Schneider: Straight up or toasted with butter straight up. Yeah. Try corn muffin toasted with butter. I don't think it's as big a thing outside of New York. I dunno. But corn, corn muffin toasted with butter.

Uri Schneider: It's a few extra minutes in the gym, but totally. Okay. But that was the spin cycle. See, like, so have something to eat, have a cup of tea and then, and then that voice wakes up. Right. You're like trying to come back from one thing and. Oh, now you've done it again. Now you go work it off because you got to look good.

Uri Schneider: The idea that those of us that have that voice, you don't beat the voice, you dance with it, you know, and you go through the spin cycle with it. So as long as you have some routines and some habits kind of, as you said, Robert, like even today, some of the associations with some of these things, some of what you called, what'd you call it, um, tinkle.

Uri Schneider: And I was thinking of flutter. Yeah, flutter, right? Whatever it is. Yeah. It's like that familiar. It's always there to remind you. Like you're not, you're not Superman. You're not, not human. You're human. It's that little, little pull. So, yeah. So I got lifting, running muffins. I was going to add some for my list. I always check my radar.

Uri Schneider: I'm like hydration, fuel, good food sleep. Okay. Open space, like take a walk outside, just get some fresh air. And the best is like open green space or the beach. Um, for me, those are major, uh, like self care, both ongoing proactively. And then also, as you said, like, if you're feeling flooded or tanked, you know, for me, I try to catch myself and I'm like, okay, what is what's going to get me stronger?

Uri Schneider: And as you said, it's not, it's not about me. It's about me getting to be the best version of me so that I can do me and bring that to the people that I care about and love and want to give to the most, um, beautiful man improv. Why what's the value? Why in the world, like act, as you said, the irony of leaving acting school to fly home, to be real, to be open, to be yourself.

Uri Schneider: Yeah. What's the role of improv to help people who stutter

Robert O'Brien: For me? I would say it's getting, getting out of their head. Getting getting out of the mindset that because I have a stutter, there are certain things that I cannot do well or that I will find harder than any fluent speaker. It's a way of thinking in, in, in the moment, it's a way of keeping it real and for myself on a personal level, It's really getting to know no to getting to know yourself very well and not filtering because if you're doing things in the moment, you haven't got time to think about it.

Robert O'Brien: It's just out there. And for someone who has a stutter or for someone who's gay or someone who is hiding, we, you know, sorta edit us before we ever opened our mouths on most of all, it's. It's fun to actually play as grown-ass adults. We are all taught to be super, super, you know, honest, serious professional, never let the masks slip.

Robert O'Brien: And you're then playing this game and you feel literally like you're seven years old again. And it's like, oh my God, people are like kids, adults are just big kids. And when they are given a safe space to actually begin to play in that area, it again opens up this like whole sort of M note flavor that they might have had and life.

Robert O'Brien: As, as I get older, it's about having all of these kinds of flavors to kind of dance with. And to actually bring in any given, given situation. So for all of those reasons, that's why. So how

Uri Schneider: has this, has this group or this iteration evolved and how it can people check it out and get involved with?

Robert O'Brien: Yeah. So, um, what, what it's called, it's a, um, it's an, it's an acting course that, uh, I mean, obviously brings improv to people who stole her and now, because I feel it's a little bit of a pitch.

Robert O'Brien: I may stutter a little bit, so that's curious, but listen it, thank you. Yeah. So it's a course called the, the. The unblockables it's, um, run in association with a tight, tight rope theater, which is an improv theater here in van van Couver. And how was, how was all happened? It was a very random forming. Um, I had, um, I had asked to speech therapy therapy.

Robert O'Brien: Okay. I'll take a break. A breath.

Robert O'Brien: Is it. Slaughter. So I had asked a local good. It

Uri Schneider: actually, it adds intimacy and openness. And I did due to the fact that you're the best person to be doing an improv group. Yeah. People who stutter, because otherwise it almost sounds like, oh, you got this all figured

Robert O'Brien: out. So yeah, no, no, God, no. Anyone watching this, I do not have it all figured out.

Robert O'Brien: So that's the

Robert O'Brien: first thing.

Robert O'Brien: No one has it figured that

Uri Schneider: as my dad, my dad likes to say, that's why it's called private practice because we keep practicing.

Robert O'Brien: Probably, but, but, um, yeah, no. So how it, how it actually all came to be? I had, I'd asked a local speech therapist here called a Wendy, Wendy, Wendy at duke, who is the, uh, the, uh, director of co of Columbia speech and language services to a book book event.

Robert O'Brien: I, I, I was thinking that it'd be great to have a speech therapist come to one of my book events because I talk about having a stutter and I'd reached, out she had answered. She had, um, came, we had never met before we, you know, talked for an hour, an hour and a half shook, shook hands, parts of ways.

Robert O'Brien: And I, you know, didn't think I would ever hear from her after that. And then at, then about a year, then about a year and a half, I get a random text. Wendy says, Robert, hi, listen, I've actually met a guy here who, who has a theater school. He. runs one course is based on mental health. So when Dan, who is, uh, who is the co co founder and owns the actual M or is co-owner of the theater group, does courses for mental health people?

Robert O'Brien: Who've got Parkinson's and he brings those improv skills to people who've got parkinson's and Wendy said, I thought, you know, it'd be great to have a similar course for people who, who have a stutter, would you, would you like to come on board? And so we, you know, we, we, I mean, met talked, uh, on the first call kind of like I'm here.

Robert O'Brien: I got a little bit nervous. I felt a large flutter because I've got Wendy who's, you know, who owns her very own speech clinic here and she's got staff under her and decades worth of experience. And Dan and I, and I love sharing this. Dan, who's married to a, you know, brain brain surgeon has a dog that has a bigger social media following than I've got and.

Robert O'Brien: He's amazing. And he makes it look easy and I'm kind of stuck in, in the middle going what am I doing here? And it's like, well, I'm, I'm actually the one who has the actor training skills, who knows what the games are. And I'm also the person who has a stutter who knows what the speech therapy is and how they interlink.

Robert O'Brien: And, um, we've been running, um, core courses. Our, our last course was early in the year and we, uh, and we have another course beginning in the fall. We are at the moment looking at getting a funding for it because, um, this is the first sort of year and we're just figuring it out.

Robert O'Brien: And, uh, we've, we've, we've had opportunities to also share this on stuttering platforms as well. It's really been amazing, like on a personal note form for myself to actually be sort of part of this. And it's a team effort. That's what I really love about it. It's a team effort. So on a, on like certain days, Dan might, might, might actually take, take, take the lead.

Robert O'Brien: Wendy takes, takes the lead in other ways. And then I can take the lead when it comes to, you know, stood stuttering side of things. It's the first time in my life. I've been very much a lone Wolf and someone even, uh, you know, anyone who writes a book probably knows it's a, you know, a very per a personal exercise or even in the gym, I go go to the gym alone.

Robert O'Brien: So I've been very much a lone Wolf and learning how to work as, as a team and having a team and working as a team it's been great.

Uri Schneider: The lone Wolf, the irony is I, I go running alone and then I once had a run in with a wild dog. I don't know if it was a dog or a Wolf. Yeah. It was a lone Wolf when I saw it. But then all of a sudden, the rest of the pack showed up.

Uri Schneider: Yeah. It's, it's a whole story, but you were not that lone Wolf that attacked me on the run, but, um, but yeah, there's this saying. Fonda inspired by Yona, tun, Roselle. It's an African proverb or something. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. Yeah. So I'm happy for you to have this team and I'm sure it's going to go far.

Uri Schneider: Um, I just want to reiterate so happy you're here.

Uri Schneider: So so much value and passion, I get feedback about different episodes and there's one episode, one other episode that deals very, there are many, uh, and we're we're at actually cataloging them and shout out to Jess Bauman in Vancouver, adjust Barkley. Also shout out to Justin. Just Bauman is in Manhattan and moving out of the city.

Uri Schneider: But Jessica Barkley, who has been, was our introduction here. And, uh, she's been helping us with the toolbox transcending toolbox we've collected and cataloged the internet of stuttering into a searchable tool box for people who stutter and for speech language pathologists, to be able to pull out age appropriate.

Uri Schneider: And theme related and media related tools. And so among the tools would be these podcast episodes, and we tagged them with themes. Like this one would be creativity, mental wellness, inclusion, et cetera, and so one of the episodes that I got feedback about Matthew Bernucca tells the story of being in psychoanalysis for years.

Uri Schneider: And hoping that sorting some of that stuff out will somehow going to help him with the stuttering. And then at some point realizing I need something in addition or something else. And he ends up in a journey of speech therapy and he talks about it feeling like he went from one side of the tracks to the other side of the tracks.

Uri Schneider: And, um, I know that this episode Robert is going to be that kind of resource for people just like Matthew's episode has been for so many people. So I just want to thank. For being here and for sharing and, uh, we could certainly carry on, but what would be your one, if you could put up, you know, a new billboard in Hollywood or some poster in Vancouver, what would it say?

Uri Schneider: What would be your, your message for the world to hear from robert today?

Robert O'Brien: You are a enough. You are enough because I'm thinking that, oh, I just stuttered on a podcast. Oh, did I pitch the course? Well enough, will they be able to find the course? And it's like, oh my God. It's like people, Google, you're a part.

Robert O'Brien: You are enough. So no, it really is that that's, that's what I would put up. And I think when, you know, people say it, people say it and it can be very easy to say, it but when it actually lands. And, um, and I think actually Dan on, on one, one of our courses actually mentions that like, people being told you are enough and then the pause, let it settle and you can see, I mean, people's face change because when it lands and they actually get to get the, get the emotion and feel it, that wow

Robert O'Brien: am I enough? Yes. Yes, you are. That's really profound for all. For all of us

Uri Schneider: I'm enough. You're enough. We're enough. We're enough. And you pitched it more than well enough. Uh, but for anyone that didn't catch it, I'll just reiterate. Um, if you want to read Robert's book, it's called, um, oops. I've been pointing to the wrong thing.

Uri Schneider: Hold on. The book is called just one more drive the true story of a stuttering homosexual and his race car. And the improv group is called the unblockables. And I'll even read out the internet web URL so that Robert knows that that was covered under a tight rope, tight rope theater spelled the British way.

Uri Schneider: theater.com/improv-four-stuttering. And I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of Robert. I want to thank you for the generosity of your time and the sharing and openness. And if you're interested, you know where to find us@transcendingx.com, join the community, check out the resources. And of course all these episodes Thanks so much everybody.

Robert O'Brien: . The Uri. Thank you very, very much. Thank you. Have a good day.