“If we’re just staying in our stuttering bubbles, we’re not going to shift the hearts and minds that we need to make our fellow people who stutter feel safe.”

— Maya Chupkov

Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.

BIO:

Maya is a writer, storyteller, and public relations expert whose work is rooted in social justice and narrative shift. As a woman who stutters, she is a stuttering advocate working to shift societal norms around stuttering and the disability community. Maya is host, creator and producer of Proud Stutter, a podcast about shifting the narrative around stuttering. She lives in San Francisco with her iancé and dog lil’ Stu.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

0:00-05:39 Intro

05:39-10:28 National Stuttering Awareness week and advocacy 

10:28-13:58 Growing up with a stutter

13:58-17:37 Stuttering in the Workplace

17:37- 22:27 Self-acceptance

22:27-25:16 Bullying

25:16- 27:56 Covering speech differences in the classroom

27:56 - 32:51 Mentors in the stuttering community

32:51-37:39 Proud Stutter Podcast’s mission.

37:39 - 45:16 Starting ‘Proud Stutter’

45:16 - 48:56 Advocating with city resolutions. 

48:56 - 52:01 Uri Schneider and the stuttering community. 

52:01-53:03 Outro

RESOURCES

• Proud Stutter: Website , Facebook , Instagram , Twitter

• Maya Chupkov: Twitter

MORE QUOTES

“If you don't have enough self-love, you're going to treat everyone else like that. It's got to start inside. So it comes from self-acceptance and then the advocacy.” - Uri Schneider

“If we're just staying in our stuttering bubbles, we're not going to shift the hearts and minds that we need to make our fellow people who stutter feel safe.” -Maya Chupkov

“City resolutions are just such a powerful way to spread awareness in your own community. With 'Proud Stutter', The vision I see is to do more advocacy beyond the podcast. And I think one step is to help other cities do the same.” - Maya Chupkov

TRANSCRIPTION:

Uri Schneider: There's verbal diversity and then there's technological disfluency. So this is tech disfluency. I love that it's timed out. So let me try it again oh, we're live. Yeah, we are live. Here we are. It's national stuttering awareness week. 2022. My name is uri Schneider and it is my honor.

Uri Schneider: And pleasure to host you. We haven't done one of these on Facebook live in a while. We've been recording in the background, but I felt there was no better time and no better person. To bring us back to Facebook live and share this live with my special guests this week. So this is transcending stuttering podcast, episode 74, super excited to have the one and only maya chupkov

Uri Schneider: from the west coast Pacific time. So all my west coast friends I'm coming at, you live east coast. Maya's coming out from the west coast. We got the whole country covered and we are going to cover some really interesting topics today. Today, I'll give you a little bio just in case you've been living under a rock and you don't know who maya is.

Uri Schneider: She is a force of nature, bringing impact and change on. On an individual level and on a social level and just having conversations that are worth having. And so it's, it's great. And I'm looking forward and I invite maya to flip the script on me and feel free to change, change it around and interview me if she wants.

Uri Schneider: But, uh, Maya is a writer, a storyteller, a public relations expert. Her work is rooted in social justice and narrative shift. Love that as a woman who stutters, she is a stuttering advocate working to shift societal norms around stuttering and the disability community. She is the host creator and producer of proud stutter.

Uri Schneider: When you finish listening, check it out. It's on every podcast platform and all over social follow subscribe, drop a like drop review. It helps her podcast and do the same for this podcast and any others that you want to support, it really does make a difference. And it also helps creators like Maya and myself, you know, recognize.

Uri Schneider: Wow, someone's listening. So that's always nice. A podcast about sh for proud stutter is a podcast that's shifting the narrative around stuff. Um, she lives in San Francisco with her fiance and her dog, little Stu I heard might make an appearance, trying to get some attention early morning on the Pacific west coast.

Uri Schneider: Maya. Welcome to transcending stuttering.

Maya Chupkov: Thank you so much for having me, especially during the best week of the year national stuttering awareness week, it is an honor to be here with you and I'm excited to dive in on the conversation.

Uri Schneider: Awesome. So I love to always ask at the beginning, like what's one thing you like people to know about you that doesn't show up in your bio or might not be as self-evident.

Maya Chupkov: Yeah. So I actually got asked this question when I first started my job and my answer was very obvious. Like I'm a podcaster, but in this way, I have to kind of find another answer because that's what this whole conversation's about. Um, but I guess I can talk about, um, what I do for money for my day job.

Maya Chupkov: I guess, like I can add in some details about it that you wouldn't quite find on my resume, but my job really involves me talking all day, um, and facilitating meetings, which as a person who stutters to be able to like try to control a room on a constant basis and be leading and convening people with passionate.

Maya Chupkov: Personalities. It's definitely a struggle, um, as someone that stutters and even as much as I try to spread awareness about it in my own community at work, um, like my colleagues at work know I stutter and I'm very vocal about it. But with partners outside of the organization that I work with on a daily basis, sometimes it just doesn't get through.

Maya Chupkov: Because stuttering is so complex and nuanced. And so even though you're even, even though I try to like spread as much awareness about it as appropriate in those settings, I feel like I still can get misunderstood just a little bit. And I feel like so many of the norms around speech and stuttering is so ingrained in us as humans, that sometimes it just takes time to really.

Maya Chupkov: Um, gets people to understand stuttering and that it's not because I'm nervous and it's not because I don't know how to convene a meeting, but it's simply because it just takes a little longer for me to say what I want to say. And when you're in a setting where you have to control the room, it's just, yeah, it's very, it's very.

Maya Chupkov: Um, it's hard. And I think a lot of it is an internal too, because I do judge myself a lot in those settings. And so I think it's like a balance of like the internal and then external

Uri Schneider: that's an incredible comment. And it segues into something I was thinking about as I was really getting jazzed, thinking about our conversation.

Uri Schneider: I was thinking about national stuttering awareness week and all the incredible advocacy that's going on and conversations that need to be had about the way society thinks that people who stutter think about stuttering are scared to talk about it. Parents are concerned to use the word stuttering when they talk to their kids.

Uri Schneider: And I certainly want to frame this conversation also just for all our listeners. Everything we're going to talk about is probably as pertinent for school-aged kids, teens, and adults, and obviously should be skilled to people's development. Maturity and what they're up for. We shouldn't think of taking one thing and throwing it on everybody.

Uri Schneider: Uh, but certainly I want to distinguish the population of parents, of young children, who stutter preschool children, who stutter, uh, is a different conversation. And yet it's also an important conversation to listen to because how parents relate to the stuttering child, how teachers relate to the stuttering child can be extremely impressionable and a wonderful opportunity.

Uri Schneider: To lay the groundwork of how that young person sees themselves, sees the activity of speech and communication as something that's joyful and natural or lays the foundation of it being something that's extremely loaded and cagey and tenuous, and really, you know, ready for anything to come. And it just, so it's a really big opportunity with young children who stutter, um, how we think about.

Uri Schneider: So exciting. So I think most people, you use the word, you know, the inside, getting in your own head and then like what the society thinks about stuttering. And while we'll talk most of today about society and culture, could you reflect on, like, I think most of the time people think about stuttering, they think about what can that person do to manage their speech, or what is that person feeling?

Uri Schneider: Or the person who stutters is thinking. How can I handle this situation myself differently as opposed to it as compared to the recent conversation that we're focusing on, about how society can create more space, you can create a more safe space, welcoming space, a supportive space, more understanding space. Can you relate to the two and maybe in your own life journey, like how that's evolved and the interplay between the two, the inner experience, and then how society and people around you and your community.

Uri Schneider: Influence the experience of stuttering.

Maya Chupkov: Yeah. I feel like I've been having a lot of conversations with my colleagues that I work with about, um, how we can create safer spaces for. People who stutter at work, um, and kind of model for like other organizations we work with on how even if it's just like one simple act, like how we can begin to just make people who stutter and even other people with disabilities or speech impediments just feel safer because I think.

Maya Chupkov: Um, I think that would go a long way and like people who stutter being less in their head and more just doing, you know, like their work and not having to really worry about those internal judgments. Um, and so one of the things that I really want to start implementing is similar to how. In spaces. It's often we say our pronouns, like she, her.

Maya Chupkov: And so that like I'm a, she, her and that has become mainstream, like in almost every space I'm in. That's just like how everyone, um, welcomes each other in this space. And so I think we can do something else around speech. or Disability. Um, I haven't quite landed on the exact language, but something along the lines of like, here are my accommodations that I'm seeking today and so I would say, you know, I have a, uh, I have a stutter.

Maya Chupkov: Um, it, it sometimes takes a little while for me to talk like, and so people. Like have the opportunity, everyone not to just me who stutters to have, to be able to talk about like what they need space for in the room. And so, um, I think that would go a long way to just, and I know that's like another thing to include, but, um, it could be very powerful.

Uri Schneider: Beautiful. If we were to visit maya you know, seven years old, 10 years old, 17 years old, would you invite us in and like, take us through any of those moments, experiences, they could be the challenging moments. They could be the exciting, proud moments and kind of like lead us up to the person that you are today to bring us to this present moment, because so much of that probably forms your feelings and your passion and your purpose.

Maya Chupkov: Yeah. It's interesting because when I think back to my childhood, I don't really, um, hear or see a lot of stuttering. I don't know if that's just, cause I just like hid it away in like the deep corners of my memory or what, but, um, but yeah. My, but I have like talked to my mom about it and she's told me like what happened in her view.

Maya Chupkov: And so I kind of have a sense, but it's so weird. Like, I try so hard to think back to how it felt to have a stutter at a young age. And I was just like, I might need to go to like some, um, I dunno what it's called, that someone's therapy where they help you, like unlock your. Memories. And I think that would be an interesting experience, but, um, but what I do remember, um, very clearly is that in middle school and high school, there were so many experiences I wanted to do and I just didn't do them because I was afraid to stutter.

Maya Chupkov: So that's definitely. Held me back a lot. Um, although I did still join associated student body in high school. Um, but I chose roles where you'd have to talk as much. And, um, I actually ran for senior class treasurer. And I lost because, um, I didn't talk at all about the campaign. Like it was just like, I dunno, there's just, it, it was, um, it was interesting, but the activities that I did do had less talking involved.

Maya Chupkov: Like I did volleyball. I did show acquire, which is like a mix of singing and dancing. And so those types of things, I was able to express myself through. Not through speaking. And so I tend to gravitate towards those things. Um, and yeah, and this continued in college too. I found a great group of friends, which I never had in high school.

Maya Chupkov: I never had, I never dated in high school. Like either the first time I ever dated someone was in college and, um, And I started putting myself out there a little more in college, although I did turn down a lot of interesting classes because of the speaking part. So I definitely felt myself holding back a lot.

Maya Chupkov: Um, and then I dunno how this happened, but I ended up. After college, I ended up in a communications PR internship. I know.

Uri Schneider: And that's too good. That's good to just say, like, I don't know how that happened from the girl running for treasurer, who says she lost because she didn't talk enough about the campaign and maybe that's your story, but yeah, you land a job in a PR firm.

Maya Chupkov: Yeah. I mean, the interview went really well. I really connected with the people that I was being interviewed with. Um, and from what I remember from that interview, I don't think I stuttered very much. Um, or I think what I'm like, Hey, if I got the job, I must have not stutter. Like that was my mentality. And so.

Maya Chupkov: Um, so yeah, I, the, the reason I got that job and I applied for in the first place is because, um, I wanted, I know I wanted to live in San Francisco. And so basically what I did was I just applied to every job I could find in San Francisco, like, and any job and every job, like it was just, I just did that.

Maya Chupkov: And then this was the job that ended up, um, Like feeling right to me. Um, and so I, yeah, and it actually ended up being a very great experience and I think it was just cause it was all learning. Like I didn't really have a lot of pressure on me. It was an internship. Right. So I just felt, I think more relaxed and I had a great boss and co and colleagues, but then once I started like, Um, climbing up the ladder and like through different, um, PR jobs that's when the pressure started getting more and more, and I had to talk more and more, and I had to, the worst part was I had to pitch journalists, like there's one job where I literally, my only job was to call journalists and tell them about a story that they should cover.

Maya Chupkov: And that was. So stressful because I stuttered so much through that experience. And there's even moments where I had to pitch journalists in an open office format where everyone could hear me. And so that was stressful. And so

Uri Schneider: is that like a phone call that you're making outgoing calls, but like you're in an open space where people can kind of hear your call.

Uri Schneider: You don't have the benefits of closing the

Maya Chupkov: door.

Maya Chupkov: Yeah, so that was rough. And we did have small rooms where we could do it alone, but not, they were not always available. So, um, but I still ended up landing stories for clients. I don't like, I know how, because like, I was good at my job. It's just the stuttering sometimes got in the way, of course.

Maya Chupkov: And there was a lot of ableism and. In my work, um, because I would get critiques from my, my boss saying you weren't prepared enough. If I had to lead a client meeting, I would get feedback like, oh, like you didn't sound like you were confident you didn't like, so that was, as soon as I started hearing that, I just kind of like.

Maya Chupkov: I just like, I was like, I can't do this anymore. I don't want this. So I like ended up moving a lot in the PR worlds because I kept thinking that I couldn't do it. And so, um, there, there was a lot of moving around and then I went back to school and I got my masters and public affairs. It was like another public.

Maya Chupkov: Thing. Um, but I loved it so much and I ended up staying in the communications and just going to the nonprofit world and finding a jobs that more aligned with my values. And I was so happy there. And then I had a traumatic experience working for the state government. Um, It was the public advocate's office at the California PUC.

Maya Chupkov: Um, and I, yeah, I had a very traumatic experience there. Um, it wasn't really about my stuttering. I think it was just like, um, being a woman and not being in like being in a higher leadership position, but not getting treated like it. And so. There is a lot of emotional abuse in that job. And I reported it to HR and they didn't do anything about it.

Maya Chupkov: Um, and then I found out two other women before me had the same experience as me. So there's still a lot of that happening, which is really sad, but, um, But what kind of kept me there for as long as I did was I met someone that I work with who stuttered too. Um, he kind of was able to hide it a lot better than me.

Maya Chupkov: Um, but he, but just having someone that understood me in that way, I think was very helpful. Um,

Uri Schneider: can I, can I interrupt for one sec if he was so good at hiding? And you at this time, were not talking all the time. You didn't have a podcast at the time. My, a proud stutter podcast. So how did the two of you kind of reveal this shared trait?

Maya Chupkov: Yeah, so I think it was like three months in and he called me and he was. Like, I hear, like, I hear your stutter and I just want to that you know, that like, I, you, he, he said he used to have a stutter. Um, which could be the case, like who knows it's complicated, but yeah, he, he used to stutter and now he opened up that it comes up, his stutter comes up when he hears other people who stutter.

Maya Chupkov: And so, um, that was like, but he like opened up how, like he went through law school with the stutter and all this stuff. So, um, we kind of had a bonding moment. At that time.

Uri Schneider: So interesting. You talked about going into public advocacy and I like, you know, thinking about public private inside, outside, like self-acceptance is, I think of what goes on on our inner landscape and then the advocacy, the self-advocacy is kind of how we bring it out.

Uri Schneider: So a beautiful quote from, uh, our friends at. My speech, formerly stuttering scholarship association. That quoting yes. Way Jose. I don't remember his last name. Do you remember his last name? Jose? He's like an amazing keynote speaker. He's speaking in Montreal. He's an amazing guy. Looked up on Twitter and I think on Instagram, his handle is yes.

Uri Schneider: Way Joze, J O Z E. And he said, um, talk about stuttering or advocate for people. Understand stuttering, the way you would treat stuttering or something like that, help people treat it the way you would want to treat it yourself. And I think that it just speaks to that inside outside. It's kind of like, love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Uri Schneider: And which is one of these like very basic first principle kind of things. But if you don't have enough, self-love you don't regard yourself too highly. You're going to treat everyone else like that. You know, it's got to start inside. That's how you regard yourself. So that self-acceptance and then the advocacy.

Uri Schneider: So it was really interesting to me, maya that you don't, you don't have a lot of memories and maybe they're they're locked in. Um, but what is like the first memory where you're thinking, cause you did say at some point, let's say at the treasury thing, there was a certain degree of holding back. There was a certain degree of not speaking about the campaign as much as you may be want.

Uri Schneider: Can you think of times and junctures where that showed up in those earlier years before the work work career?

Maya Chupkov: Yeah, I mean, I know fourth grade was a very challenging year for me and, um, but it was, I, I didn't, I don't, I don't associate that with my stutter though. I think the only connection I can really make.

Maya Chupkov: About that year. And my stuttering is that I think because I had a stutter, I was an easier target for bullies. And I've actually seen this storyline in other people too, that like, when you're like, when I was younger, I just, like, I had this urge to. Like want to participate in class. So I like did that, but then like socially, I was struggling a little bit and I feel like I was just an easy target because I didn't, I wasn't the most social person or like, if I was social, like I didn't have the confidence when I was young.

Maya Chupkov: Cause because of my speech. And so maybe like, I think I was just an easy at target. And so. Um, yeah, I did experience a lot of bullying in the fourth grade. Almost every day I would come home crying and yeah, it was so painful. Um, but I honestly like, and maybe it's because that experience overshadowed so much in my other experiences, but like, when I think about my childhood, I immediately think about fourth grade and the pain and.

Maya Chupkov: Yeah, so that I think that experience might've overshadowed some of the other experiences I had with my stutter. Um, so yeah,

Uri Schneider: the reason I went down this road and I think it's so powerful is like going back and thinking about like, what brings us to this moment? Like, you know, my, my friend Dan greenwald, He spoke with me at the NSA last year, do workshops online and he's like, tell me an age and I'll tell you my stuttering memory.

Uri Schneider: So someone said third grade. He's like, yeah, I'm buying baseball cards. I'm at the, at the bodega buying the cards. And the person behind me says what you, you forgot your name, you know? And someone's like, okay, like 10 years old. He's like, yup. That was the time that I was reading in class. And the teacher thought I was finished or I lost my spot and chose someone else.

Uri Schneider: But yeah. I just was on delay, you know, it was coming. I just needed a little extra response time. So what made me go here? maya when you said I loved it, you said, imagine at the bottom of our screen, we kind of just like tag it, just simple, very, very, even very neutral. You know, I have a stutter I'd appreciate such and such accommodation

Uri Schneider: and I was thinking, if you could roll that back to like middle school, junior high school girl who stutters, whether it's you or someone else, what would be something that might've been impactful or opener from a peer, from a teacher, from a parent, from an adult, whatever. Like what would have been something that you feel had you had that, and you'd love for the next young person who stutters to have that, you know, what would be that kind of accommodation or that kind of space creator that a person could have offered or created for you or someone else

Uri Schneider: or

Maya Chupkov: yeah I can see, like at a young age, like first grade or second grade to just have a conversation about stuttering with the class and just, um, start very young and, and really like, cause you're a sponge at that age and just, um, trying to create those spaces at a very young age of like, all right.

Maya Chupkov: Today, we're going to talk about speech and how there's some people that speak differently and that's okay. Um, and then like say, you know, that there's stuttering there's and like have the teacher to just like, educate that, that way, and then opening up the space for others to like, talk about their experiences with people that.

Maya Chupkov: The different speeches. Um, and like that could, like there could be a person there that's like, oh yeah, like my dad has a stutter and you know, and then that just opens up the gate for young kids to. Talk about that topic. Like any other topic that is brought up throughout that whole year. It's just another topic.

Maya Chupkov: It's not like this huge thing, but it's just like, okay. Here's and have it be like a very light hearted thing because the more. Big deal. You may get the more it's like, you know, cause stuttering really isn't a big deal. Like yes, internally it is, but the less we can like make it a big deal and just like a different type of thing.

Maya Chupkov: Like all of these other dif differences we have, then I think that would go a long way.

Uri Schneider: Awesome. I'm tempted. Yeah. I'm going to share one quick story. You might've heard me share it at the stutter fest and then we'll go into the topic of like the idea of advocacy within the stuttering community and then advocacy kind of beyond it.

Uri Schneider: But the story I'll try to tell it quickly, but people seem to enjoy it. So it's worth sharing. A guy reached out and it was a little hard to reach and I pictured him similar to what you described, answering the phone and there's people around. And he doesn't really want to answer the phone. So he'd answer the phone click and on our end, on the other end, it was like, gosh, this guy's getting, he's being hard to reach.

Uri Schneider: But of course we know better than that, or like at my office when people call and don't leave a message, we return every call because I know who knows how long it took to make that. And who knows what emotions we're sitting on the other side of that line. So while it may or may not be the typical thing that people might do in life, I think at least for our practice, I think it's important that we know we return all missed calls.

Uri Schneider: Sometimes it turns out kind of awkward in that sense, but usually people appreciate it. And so this guy was hard to reach. And finally, I reached him and he's like, yeah, let me just step outside. And I think you've been in a stairwell or something and he's like, So I wanted to know about stuttering therapy.

Uri Schneider: Um, I've been stuttering for my whole life and actually I've done really darn well, like I'm at a really high level at this very, very, very prestigious law firm, but I just got a promotion and it's a much more visible position front facing and also in the company and the stakes are high and suddenly what worked until now, isn't working the same.

Uri Schneider: And so I just wanted to know, like, is that normal? Can you help? Is there hope? And I said, you know, we talked and we talked about, he said, what are the expectations of speech therapy? And I said, well, I think, I think on the inside that you should feel more at ease, you should feel able to be more present in those situations.

Uri Schneider: You should be able to like, remember why you're speaking and what you're talking about. And whatever degree you're consumed with monitoring and editing your speech and rendering what reaction you're going to get, that that should be tempered, that that should be in proportion, uh, that allows you a lot more space to really communicate and be your best.

Uri Schneider: And then on an outside level, just be a great communicator because probably a lot of the ways you're managing coping, suppressing, stutter, compromises, the greatest communicator you can be. So on the outside that you could objectively be a greater communicator and leverage things that you already have within you and maybe learn some new skills and new communication skills that could just add.

Uri Schneider: I think it's the first one that I need the most of, you know, I just need to loosen up because everything will flow from there. It's a very high level guy at this firm. I said, oh, you might enjoy talking to this fellow who was of like a similar. Had certain commonality in identity to this gentleman who was a similar physician researcher who got a promotion to NIH, does some really cutting edge research and also suddenly found himself the stakes got really high and his stuttering been holding back before suddenly he wanted to do something.

Uri Schneider: So I connected them. And then afterwards I was thinking about it and I said, oh, what about this guy I've worked with who finished law school? And he started working at that same firm. And when he was working at that firm or going to that firm, he had a good dose of self-acceptance, but he was terrified how others would receive him and the prestige and the reputation of the firm was like, it's so cutthroat, it's so intense.

Uri Schneider: And he was really, really nervous that as much as he was feeling good with himself in his own inner space, This culture and this reputation of this firm in his mind was not going to be accepting and tolerant. So here I'm reaching out to him and I'm like, listen, do you want to be a mentor buddy for this guy?

Uri Schneider: Who's at senior level partner at this firm. Cause he's kinda starting his journey of exploring his stuttering and what he can do about it. And on the other hand, he's like a senior level partner track guy at the firm that you just got in the front door. Wouldn't it be cool. Like. And like similar to the guy you met, it becomes a little bit of tribalism.

Uri Schneider: Like I, I think you stutter, I think we have more in common than we realize, and we have something to talk about. That's very intimate. That's a connector that transcends just the thought. So that story to me is very touching. I get chills every time I think about it. Uh, but if you want to transition off that into, I was thinking about advocacy.

Uri Schneider: And the outside spaces like that firm, and the places you were talking about, the classroom, the school work, families, communities. Um, and then also, even within the world of people who stutter the advocacy within the community, what are your thoughts about that?

Maya Chupkov: Yeah, I think like one of the biggest missions and goals of proud stutter is really just inviting everyone into the space.

Maya Chupkov: Um, it's not just. For people who stutter, like, yes, that's like my primary audience, of course, because like stuttering, it's such a personal experience. And I want to support people who stutter by telling stories where they feel less alone, less isolated. Um, but it's also for, um, people outside of. Like in the stuttering community, but like don't necessarily have a stutter themselves because there's so many people who don't stutter that are doing so much amazing advocacy for the stuttering and community.

Maya Chupkov: And there's so many speech therapists that are really transforming. stuttering therapy in like such positive ways. And so it's a very open space. Um, and, and it's just, and I think that really goes a long way to just this whole, um, creating safe spaces because it's like the more open it is, the more people are willing to, um, Like the length, the more change we'll see, right?

Maya Chupkov: Like if we're just staying in our stuttering bubbles, like we're not going to shift hearts and minds that we need to feel safe as, as people who stutter. And so, and I know, you know, like everyone's on their own journey and not everyone feels that way, but for me, like doing all this advocacy it's just.

Maya Chupkov: Like, oh my God. Like the people that have reached out just from seeing an article like that, or a radio segment on stuttering, and they're like, they've never thought of their stutter really in any sort of way, other than just trying to hide it, like I've had. So many people, whether it's just listening to an episode or seeing an article, or seeing, seeing something where it's like, they're like, oh my, like that this shift in them of their stutter.

Maya Chupkov: And it's like, that's what proud stutter is all about. And those are the moments that I want to happen for everyone, whether or not. And, you know, like, just because that moment happens for someone. Doesn't mean they're automatically ready to like, accept their stutter and like beyond a proud stutter, but it's just like those moments that can.

Maya Chupkov: Slowly slowly help them get out of their shell. Um, and like, there's one example. I asked this woman if she wanted to be on the show, because she had seen, my Instagram was like, oh my God, like. She just wanted to tell her story to me. And I thought it was so, so powerful. And I asked her, do you want to be on the show?

Maya Chupkov: And she said, no, I'm not ready yet. And I'm like, that's totally okay. It's okay. And so really proud stutter is all about those moments. It's not about getting, it's not about forcing people to tell their stories. It's just allowing a people to slowly. You know, have this deeper relationship with their, their stutter.

Uri Schneider: I watched over the course of COVID, how many people would come to these online events and they would sometimes mute their faces and sometimes they mute their voices. Um, and as you said, creating a space and at the outset saying, you know, you're welcome here. And if you want to contribute in the. If you want to take yourself off mic or raise your hand, like creating different ways for people to engage in some people by their nature, nothing to do with stuttering.

Uri Schneider: Some people by virtue of a speech difference are a little more apprehensive. The most beautiful thing is to see the people who are declaratively sending you a private message. Like don't call on me. Don't expect I'm not participating. And then it's like 10 minutes into the Q and a, and suddenly you see them show their face.

Uri Schneider: And then they raised their hand and then they, you hear their voice. So for you, Maya, what was that tipping point that you decided to share your voice and kickoffs proud stutter podcast of yours?

Maya Chupkov: Yeah, it was really, um, I was still at the job that I hated and I wanted a. Creative outlet and pod casting was just such an accessible thing because anyone could start a podcast.

Maya Chupkov: And so I was like, I just, I'm going to do this. Like, I'm gonna put, I was making more money than, and so I was like, why not just start that. Uh, my own projects with this money that I've been saving from this job, i hated into something that's like for me. And, um, because I never really thought of myself as creative.

Maya Chupkov: And so, but then I realized it's, it's not that I'm not. Creative, but I just haven't been nurturing that part of myself for a long time. And so once I started. Nurturing then I became more confident as an artist. And, um, and so I knew I wanted to do a podcast, but the, a stuttering, the idea of having it be a stuttering, a podcast actually came from my fiance, who was like, I think this would be a really powerful way to like shift the narrative around stuttering that you've.

Maya Chupkov: We've kind of talked about it a little bit and my fiance, he started as a kid, but outgrew it. And so there was always that kind of connection there with us. And he's always been really curious about my stutter. Um, and so. As soon as he suggested that a light bulb went off and I'm like, okay, im doing this.

Maya Chupkov: And then I told Cynthia, who's my best friend about it. And she's like, I would love to be your, your cohost. And I was like, this is great. I have a friend that's going to be there. And so, um, and then. Like having that outside perspective with Cynthia, it just was perfect because it really set us apart from some of the other stuttering podcasts of having an ally kind of going on a journey with us, with us.

Maya Chupkov: Um, and so. That. And then as soon as I started opening up about my stutter to, to just cause to, to people in my networks, because I knew if I was going to do a podcast around stuttering, it's just out there. So I might as well just start talking about it in my daily life too. And so it just kind of went from.

Maya Chupkov: Me being so hidden to literally like overnight, just like being out there. And so there really isn't the best answer beyond that, of like, why that the show started and that shift. I th I think I've, I had to do a little more like internal, um, thinking about. That particular moment of when that shift happened and what that feels like.

Maya Chupkov: I haven't quite done that in internal stuff yet, but, um, but yeah, now I'm like, yeah, I just feel like a different person really.

Uri Schneider: Wow. What's striking me. Listening to you. Is that so many of these transitions, these page turning moments, they were so organic. And I think that one of the things that's be careful ever that I I'm always looking out for myself to be careful.

Uri Schneider: And I want others to be thoughtful. It's like sometimes people cross a bridge and they start just telling people on the other side, like, come on, it's no big deal. Just jump in. It's going to be the best thing ever. It's gonna be great for you. You just gotta get over your fear. You gotta, it's going to be good.

Uri Schneider: Come on. And while it may be true, you can't, you can't push someone into the deep end of the pool. That you got to get there themselves. And, um, I think that's such a special tender thing and the way you're doing it, it's just so, so classy. So, so delicate, so sweet. I was thinking about, yeah, you're welcome. It's about your, your, your fiance's super crafty.

Uri Schneider: Like he gets to learn more about you, intimate sides of you, even when he's not with you. Like what are, and then get to listen to them over and over. Like what a beautiful. Serenade. He said it, you set you up for it's good for you. You're growing. And he gets to hear more and more about you. And he said, it's a whole new you.

Uri Schneider: It's like amazing. Just amazing. I was. Can I share something I wrote after I went running,

Maya Chupkov: please.

Uri Schneider: So I, um, as you see, I keep muting myself. I've got like incredible allergies that turn into I whooping cough and, uh, It's kind of like unwanted interruptions in my speech flow different than stuttering, but also pretty wicked and definitely a big deal for me as I'm hosting this podcast.

Uri Schneider: But the show must go on. There's what to be said. I'm not going to cancel. So this morning I woke up, I had one reason why. Yes. And it was greater than a thousand reasons why not to go running so many reasons not to get out dust pollen, allergies, wheezing, cough. The expected to do list waiting for me after the morning run scarcity of time ticking clock, that discouraging voice in my head telling me like, who do you think you are?

Uri Schneider: Like 999. Good reasons not to. And then just one good reason to go. That was all I needed to push it over the top. And I think if we can all find that, like why? Yes, yes. Full body. Yes. That's the one thing we need that can transcend, overcome tip the scale. From the inside, out of all the doubt and all the hesitation, that could be 999 of those.

Uri Schneider: If you see one heck yes, full body,

Maya Chupkov: I love that. I might actually borrow that if you don't mind.

Uri Schneider: Totally. I wrote, I wrote afterwards. I said, what's the, yes. What was I saying? Yes to, I said running is always good for me afterwards, physically, mentally, spiritually, creatively, socially. And I run alone. I'm more social when I come back and, um, and it's good for everyone around me.

Uri Schneider: Like I have better energy that I bring less stress, more patience clarified, focus, abundance mindset, generous spirit, note to self. Just keep listening to the one. Yes. And don't pay too much attention. And I just think about it. As you said, to have an ally, a person who doesn't stutter to go along on the journey I'm always.

Uri Schneider: Preaching and trying to live and walk the walk. All of us have our setbacks, our hold backs. Our fears are, are things we're nervous about. And obviously everyone comes to it, with their own special fingerprint of their identity and their own stuff. But we all, all of us allies, therapists, teachers, parents, Can reveal the ways that we're confronting those things for ourselves.

Uri Schneider: That's the most powerful thing we can do. And I'm trying to be a guide or a support to others. And on that note, you've been doing some things to broaden, even beyond the boundaries of the podcasting arena. I kind of saw a video of you and Nina G and Bailey and a whole like dream team. On the steps of the San Francisco city council, something about like a city resolution, what's up with that.

Uri Schneider: And where are you going with that?

Maya Chupkov: Yes. So, um, I am an advocate at heart and I, um, have a lot of experience in organizing and, um, Like electoral politics. And so I have a lot of friends that are super visors in San Francisco. And so a local resolution. And I actually interned at city hall for, um, about like six months too.

Maya Chupkov: So I kind of knew how things worked there and local. Resolutions are just such a powerful way to like spread awareness in your own community. And so when planning for national stuttering awareness week, I thought, how cool would it be to follow the footsteps of all the amazing advocates that made national stuttering awareness week happen nationally and do it right here in San francisco

Maya Chupkov: and so I, um, I had met a few of the bay area stutters just through the podcast. And so I invited a few of them to S to join me. And we, um, found a sponsor with Dean and Preston who, um, is a supervisor I wrote the resolution myself and we had the national stuttering association look at it to make sure that I got all the facts right.

Maya Chupkov: And stuff like that. And so. So, yeah, we wrote it and, um, had a press conference and just having so many people who stutter share a podium was so powerful. And, um, and really proud stutter. The, the vision I see is to do more advocacy beyond the podcast. And I think one step one natural step is to help other cities do the same thing.

Maya Chupkov: So I'm working with the kids in Denver right now on something. And. There's someone in Australia that wants to do it too. So I think my goal for next year is to try to get like as many cities as possible to do the similar thing that I did and to have everyone experienced that

Uri Schneider: wow. To have that ability to have the execute. It was such a great moment and it got such good exposure and to think about replicating that and supporting more people doing that. I have some ideas we could talk, you know, there's this transcending, stuttering community has SLPs and people who stutter from around the world create a whole little challenge or a side space, people that want to do this locally.

Uri Schneider: And maybe we can replicate some of the initiatives and bring you into that space to

Maya Chupkov: activate. Yeah, I would love that. And I made a tool kit that is on our website that anyone can like read through the different steps that go into it. So I would love it as a partner. Yeah. And I did have a question for you.

Maya Chupkov: Um, if you don't mind,

Maya Chupkov: I'm just so curious since you've like been. Part of the stuttering community for a long time. Like how have you seen it evolve since you first started your practice or just like your first intro to the stuttering community?

Uri Schneider: Well, that's a really good question. Um, so my story is longer and a little bit unique because.

Uri Schneider: I grew up the son of Dr. Phil Schneider, my dad, who I spoke to earlier today. And he's like the greatest of all time. And I'm dedicated to people who stutter and dedicated to the profession. So he's been a part of the stuttering community for decades. So growing up as his son, the first impressions I had were of, you know, we didn't, we really weren't into Marvel comics, like the superheroes in our lives or the people that my dad got behind.

Uri Schneider: Um, the mic ** of the world that got up and gave their valedictorian speeches, stuttering like a rockstar, uh, standing in the courtrooms in Brooklyn DA and rising the ranks, people who lead organizations and movements. So my relationship with stuttering and I'm proud to say, and I think this ties into something you talk about, the more kids hear different.

Uri Schneider: People's speech. And different types of speech, the more tolerant and open they're going to be the less jaw-dropping there's going to be. So the idea of representation of stuttering and media, and it just being something that people hear as opposed to like, whoa, what just happened? W w what's that, you know, something like freaky.

Uri Schneider: So thankfully for my kids too, like they're tuned in and they notice it without judgment. So for me, I grew up on that and what I've seen evolve is really the mutual. Reaching out of the stuttering community to the professional community, professional community, to stuttering community. And I think we have to be very careful to preserve, nurture and strengthen those bonds because the history is of a certain amount of distrust and a certain amount of misunderstanding between the two.

Uri Schneider: And I think there are incredible opportunities to be had when we create good alliances there. That's a great question so, I know you need to go shortly, but if you had one banner of Maya, you could rent out. You could cover the Hollywood sign in LA with a banner. What would the banner say? What would be your banner that you'd like to put out

Maya Chupkov: there?

Maya Chupkov: So my banner would be my sign-off that I do. Every show is be proud and be you.

Uri Schneider: Awesome. Awesome. So if you want to hear more, that was an easy one. It was just, it was like a layup. It was like a layup. If you want to hear more, check out proud stutter. Um, it has been an amazing conversation. The first of many and some ideas we put out here, hopefully we're putting in some movement, you know, into, into action and Maya will, uh, share with me those links and those kits and so on.

Uri Schneider: So we'll put those in the show notes. You can check those out@transcendingx.com. There is proud, stutter, amazing podcast, subscribe, drop a review, follow maya everywhere at proud stutter, check out transcending x.com. You can join the community. It's a free community. See what it has to offer you. And I would say signing off the goal is to make it easy, to make it easier for people who stutter and allies to just do really well.

Uri Schneider: In real life and that's what we're here to do. And it's an honor and a privilege to host these conversations. Thank you,

Maya Chupkov: Maya. Thank you so much. This was awesome.

Uri Schneider: Thank you. All right. Signing off Facebook. Thanks for joining us. Share this. If you enjoyed the conversation.